PETE WARD

"WELCOME TO MY OUTDOOR WORLD"



GEAR REVIEW
 
 
ACE Archery Tackle LLC
P.O. Box 95
Forrest, IL 61741

Phone (815) 692-6263
Order Toll Free (877) 549-3444
 
Web site www.acearcherytackle.com
E-mail:
ace@acearcherytackle.com

Order Toll Free {877} 549 3444

"200 grain Heavy Weight Points , Blunts and Broadheads"

Ace Super Express
 
1-7/16" X 2-13/16"


 

UPDATE NOV 2006

 

I used the Ace 200gr with a 125 gr steel adapter this year screwed into 100 gr brass inserts to take this buck with a 50# Cari-bow longbow. The shot was about 20 yards and brole the front leg bone and ribs going in and more ribs going out.

 When I did recover the broadhead in the snow it was still sharp and straight. I am very pleased with the performance of this head.

If you know me at all you already know I like heavy arrows  with high FOC . Ace has stepped up to the challenge to provide us with some real heavy broadheads with field points and blunts to match them .

This will be a review of a bit different nature because the emphasis is on achieving perfect flight with an extreme FOC arrow .

There are some bad rumours around about FOC and arrow flight .

One popular belief is arrows with more than 15% FOC will nose dive . This is not true at all . Gravity does not know anything about length or FOC . A hickory shaft weighing 600 grains has the same trajectory as a carbon shaft that weighs 600 grains and has 425 of them on the nose . {100 gr brass insert. 125 gr stel broadhead adapter, 200 grain point or broadhead =425GR.}

Another one is you can not get high FOC arows to tune and fly properly. Again this is a repeated bit of mis information. I shoot extreme FOC Carbon arrows that weigh over 700 grains in some cases with perfect flight .

The thing to remember is when we add weight to the front of an arrow it weakens the spine . This means that the shaft that shot perfect with a 125 point will in most cases not shoot the same with another 200 or 300 grains added to it .

You need a stiffer spine or shorter shaft. This is tuning, pure and simple. It is not rocket science, its arrow tuning . You should have done it to get that 125 point arrow combination to fly perfectly .

We often hear that only carbon arrows will handle high FOC / heavy point weight.This is partially true .While carbons have more ways to increase point or front weight we can still shoot the big 200 gr Ace broadheads, points and blunts on wood  or Aluminum shafts. All that we need to do is use a stiffer spine, or shorter shaft . By tuning the new arrows to your bow you will find the combination that works to give that perfect flight we all desire .

 I contacted Bob Mayo and told him that I wanted to do a project with high to extreme FOC arrows and he was on board right away . I am not trying to re invent the wheel here , I am just letting some of you in on what I have been doing for a few years now .

The first thing I did after receiving the 200 grain packages of Broadheads, points and blunts was to glue some 125 gr  steel adapters into half of them making them  325 gr . screw in's . Most of my carbons have 100 gr brass inserts installed except for some shafts left over from the compound days . I really like the look of the 200 gr brass point and with the 125 adapter it hits with some serious impact. My friends have named them Pete's "SCUDS" after seeing how they fly . At a shoot in Calgary this spring I was shooting a moderate performing Flat bow with the 325 gr points . When we got to the deer target on a wire that simulated a running deer everyones arrows were stopping half way thru the target when they hit it . These are with arrows being shot from heavier bows traveling much faster than my Scuds . Every shot that I hit with whistled thru the target and lodged into the bank behind it . After watching this the group I was shooting with named them "Scuds". Not only did they out penetrate every other arrow they flew with perfect flight .

"Scuds" at Calgary longbow shoot

On the second round I switched bows and again shot the Scuds from another Flatbow . Again the results were the same . The final round I switched again and this time the Scuds were screwed onto a diferent set of shafts for a high perfroming D/R longbow . The results were the same only the scuds were burried even deeper into the bank .

On normal 3D targets when these heavy weights hit there is sound that tells you they have landed  and with authority. Even big Elk and Moose targets get rocked when the big points drop in . Pulling these points from targets is easy due to the tapered rear and the fact they are larger than the shaft and the shaft does not stick to the target foam. 

There is always a problem getting a blunt or fieldpoint to weigh the same as your broadhead when you go outside of the norm . The Ace Hex Blunt  glue on is available in the same 200 grains as the broadhead . This will give you the same weight if you like to use these for Stumping or bunnies . I like them on my Fluflu's for stumping . They rip the Bark off a rotten stump, and tear up sod like nobodies business . For hunting small game like rabbits and grouse I do prefer to use broadheads, and with the price of the Ace 200's there is really no reason to use blunts , but for those that like blunts for hunting these ones are tough and do not bury into the grass . Again I have no problems getting perfect flight with 425 grains up front on carbon Fluflu's . In fact these are easier to get to fly perfect than normal Carbons. I shot a very good 3D round with the fluflu's and the 200 gr brass points/steel adapters one practice session with my little grizzly flat bow .

Ace 200 gr broadhead and classic point mounted on wood shafts on left, Ace 200 gr hex blunt with 125 gr steel adapters in 100 gr brass insert, center,Ace 200 gr brass point/125 steel adapter in 100 gr brass insert3rd from right, ace 200 gr brass point /125 gr steel adapter in standard Carbon shaft/insert 2nd from right andAce 200 gr broadhead /125gr steel adapter in 100gr brass insert in Carbon shaft. 125 gr point for comparison is front  center.

For the wood shaft lovers we can not get as much weight forward as with carbons but we can certainly get more than you have been used to .  The 200 ace Express glue on , is the heaviest broadhead in this style I have found to date .  Glued onto some 60/65 cedar shafts that were to stiff for my flatbow I quickly found that they flew perfectly, and hit where I was looking. These arrows are also shooting perfectly with the 200 gr brasspoint, 200 gr Hex Blunt and the 200 grain Traditional point.

The traditional point is one that the reinactment archers really liked. I think it looks great on a wood shaft too.

It is easy to rave about how  like High FOC  and heavy arrows but lets look at the benefits . Here are some actual chrono results taken with the same bow but with light arrows and heavy arrows .  Notice how much the momentum is increased with the heavy arrow, It also has a FOC of 24.4%, and this is much more than we have been taught to use . The charts are from Jackson's archery calculator.{www.bowjackson.com} Pay attention to the starting  numbers and those at 30 yards. You can see the advantage of heavy arrows at the 30 yard mark . The KE is 40  at 0 yards on both arows , at 30 yards with the light arrows it is 34 while the heavy arow is at 37and 3FT/LB more . Now look at the momentums. The 660 gr arrow starts at .482 and is at 453 at 50 yards. The light 450 gr arrow starts at .397 and drops to .355 at 50 yards. Clearly there is more penetration potential with the heavy arrow wether you belong to the KE or Momentum fan club.

ARROW BALLISTIC TABLE
Fill in the boxes below and click on type of fletching then click on CALCULATE TABLE button
Fletching_Length(in.) Feather Fletch:
Click here
Plastic Vane Fletch:
Click here
Fletching_Height(in.)
Shaft_Diameter(in. see Note 2)
Shaft_Length(in.)
Arrow_Speed(in fps):
Arrow_Weight(in grains):


Assumption:
Arrow is being shot level to the earth, off a cliff :^)

Distance
(yds)
Vertical Drop
(in.)(Note:3)
Speed
(fps)
Energy
(ft-lbs)
Momentum
(lb-sec)
0
10
20
30
40
50

ARROW BALLISTIC TABLE
Fill in the boxes below and click on type of fletching then click on CALCULATE TABLE button
Fletching_Length(in.) Feather Fletch:
Click here
Plastic Vane Fletch:
Click here
Fletching_Height(in.)
Shaft_Diameter(in. see Note 2)
Shaft_Length(in.)
Arrow_Speed(in fps):
Arrow_Weight(in grains):


Assumption:
Arrow is being shot level to the earth, off a cliff :^)

Distance
(yds)
Vertical Drop
(in.)(Note:3)
Speed
(fps)
Energy
(ft-lbs)
Momentum
(lb-sec)
0
10
20
30
40
50

Below is a chart from Jacksons calculator showing the FOC for one of my sets of arrows. These fly perfectly from my Adcock ACS CX  3 piece 53# longbow.

FOC or Point Weight for a desired FOC Calculator

Click on a radio button to the right for desired calculation, fill-in
the indicated boxes and click on the calculate button below.

To Calculate FOC
Click Here:

To Calculate Point Weight
Click Here:
All weights in grains
Fill-in marked
boxes below

Fill-in marked
boxes below
Arrow Bare Shaft Weight:

Broadhead or Point Weight:

 
Point Insert Weight(if any):

 
Nock Weight:

Nock Adapter Weight(if any):

Total Fletch Weight(all 3 or 4):

FOC desired(in %, i.e 10 for 10%):

 
  Whole Number
  30
Fraction
  3  / 16
   
Length of Arrow(inches) from nock
to tip w/point or broadhead:
/
 

During the testing of the Extreme FOC arrows I was able to get some target archers to try them . These guys shoot complete arrows that are lighter than my points . Of coures they hit much lower from their compounds, after all they weigh double . The interesting thing is that from these high speed bows they flew perfect and stacked into a tight single group. The normaly noisy bows were all of a sudden silent too .

This made them think about what they just saw for themselves . These shooters scoffed at the Scuds when they saw them and told me they couldn't possibly fly good . I took a quick guess at what shafts I had with me that would fly on their bows and screwed on the 325 gr points .  It was some good guessing on spine but without even doing tuning to get the best flight these arrows flew perfectly and with pinpoint acuracy from the scoped rigs . Some lessons need to be seen to be believed, but now there a lot of 10 to 15% FOC shooters that are looking into heavy point weights for their hunting bows .  Some are even looking into more FOC for their target rigs after what they saw for themselves .

Reading Dr Asby's reports on High FOC and carbon arrows will give a more detailed explanation of the benefits of this type of arrow. Click to read DR. Asby's Report. I hope to prove the good DR right this fall with an extreme FOC Ace setup. The Ace 200 with a 125 gr steel adapter will be screwed into brass inserts on my hunting arrows. I plant to use these for Deer, Moose  Elk and even Grouse on my Fluflu's .These broadheads are easy to sharpen to a razor edge and hold it well.I am expecting to see good blood trails from the wide cut they make if I do my part . Getting them to fly was easy after tuning the arrows with the same weight field points . I had no trouble with 5" shield cut or 5 1/4" banana fletches . These are big broadheads and they will require a good size fletch to shoot them .

If you have not tried to shoot heavy points and broadheads the Ace line is an economical way to do some experimenting. Many shooters are using shafts with to much spine and are only getting marginal acceptable flight.This is particularly true with those shooting carbon arrows. They buy rthe heaviest grain per inch shaft trying to get the weight up and this will always be the stiffest shaft, and usualy it is to stiff for their bow. Arrows are expensive abd the Ace 200 gr points and Broadheads are a cheap fix for stiff shafts. By using 100 gr brass inserts and steel adapters we can maximize our arrow weight and realy break down the spines  of these shafts.

I have screwed these heavy 325 gr points on a lot of other shooters arrows and in most cases their flight improved because they were shooting a shaft with to much spine.

I did not invent the Extreme FOC  arrow, but I am certainly a big fan of it. Last year the heaviest broadhead I had was 275 grains {175 BH and 100 Steel adapters} , but the closest match in point weight was 250 grains. Now I am shooting 325 gr points and broadheads and I expect to have even better penetration than I had last year if I am lucky enough to arrow some animals. This is the heaviest combination that I can find at this time but the indications I am getting are that we can get perfect flight with even more up front weight. I am curently looking into ways to add even more weight to the front of some arrows to see where the limit is if there is a limit to FOC on Carbon arrows. It seems that the limiting factor is in shaft spine .

I draw only 27" so it is easy for me to have very stiff spine shafts because of the length I need .Longer draw shooters will not be able to reack as much FOC as those of us with short draws . This will be an ongoing experiment that I will keep ypu up to date with as I continue to find more ways to add weight to the front of my arrows.

I would like to see a Broadhead that is even heavier from Ace, and I think that if we had a smaller size broadhead like the Ace Standard that is 1 3/16 wide made with thicker steel it would be a better penetrating broadhead and even stronger. With luck I may get my wish some day.

Pete Ward

"Welcome to my outdoor world"



Copyright 2002 PETER WARD
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